The 2010 Arizona Republican Medicaid Expansion Act.
Posted by: Donna
Do you think sponsors of a bill and a referendum to lower the minimum wage for workers up to age 22 are thinking about unintended consequences?
Assuming the lege or the voters pass a measure that would allow employers to pay 16 to 21 year olds $5.44, that means that there could potentially be thousands of young adults who would be earning $870 a month for a 40 hour work week. You become eligible for AHCCCS at an income of $903 per month or less.
I suppose it hadn’t occurred to the Republican sponsors of the bills that not every young adult is a college student living at home or otherwise dependent on his/her parents. Many young adults are on their own and some of them are already parents. Even young adults living with their parents aren’t necessarily in households enjoying a high level of financial solvency, considering the high rate of unemployment and underemployment among the middle aged these days.
The “thinking” behind this measure is that a lowered minimum wage will result in a bunch of new entry level jobs (that wouldn’t have otherwise opened) being offered to the children of middle class families to give them work experience. If that turns out to be true then this lower wage tier would price the poor out of the labor market. You’d think that people who mewl about undocumented immigrants depressing wages all the live long day (and I don’t disagree that they have a point on that score) would connect those dots.
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Donna,
” The “thinking” behind this measure is that a lowered minimum wage will result in a bunch of new entry level jobs (that wouldn’t have otherwise opened) being offered to the children of middle class families to give them work experience. If that turns out to be true then this lower wage tier would price the poor out of the labor market. You’d think that people who mewl about undocumented immigrants depressing wages all the live long day (and I don’t disagree that they have a point on that score) would connect those dots. ”
Your grasp of market economics is stunning. When a business hires someone, they seek to make a profit on that workers labor. When they don’t, they tend to go out of business.
You harp on low wage jobs, but what is the cusp of no job being better than a low wage job ?
How can lowering the price of poor labor price it out of the market ? Please explain that one, because it went right over my head.
Illegal immigrants do depress wages on the lower end because they compete most directly with the lowest paid Americans.
Alan, when people make so little money that they can’t buy anything, businesses tend to go out of business too.
Illegal immigrants do depress wages on the lower end because they compete most directly with the lowest paid Americans.
Yeah, so do young people making less than minimum wage.
Donna,
” Alan, when people make so little money that they can’t buy anything, businesses tend to go out of business too. ”
Businesses pay for labor like any other expense. It is always price verses quality. A high school kid or a drop out with no experience is worth less than an experienced skilled worker.
A business can’t afford to take on a lot of trainees at a high wage, especially when it is competing against other businesses. When the government further adds to the cost by mandating benefits, it makes it even worse.
Now if that same business can take on a trainee at a much lower cost, it will. As the new worker becomes experienced, he or she becomes more valuable and will command higher wages. If the business does not raise his wages, the worker now has the option to change jobs for more pay.
If you do not believe this, I’ve worked for businesses that were basically training grounds. Experienced workers would leave for better pay elsewhere, and the businesses continually chose to hire and train young workers at low pay.
I will now give you a real world example of how your philosophy kills opportunity for the poor to move up in America.
You’ve heard of the Bronx in NY City. They have a vacant Armory building that a developer was going to redevelop. There would have been thousands of retail jobs plus construction jobs.
This was killed by the Bronx delegation to City Council who demanded minimum wage and benefit packages for everyone.
I know you will say that people taking these jobs need these protections to survive. No, this is to get their feet on the ladder to move up.
So now thanks to a certain political philosophy, a depressed area still has no opportunity for it’s youth to get work experience.
Have a few questions…does the law protect existing employees aged 16 to 21? If not employers may be encouraged to lay off current employees 16 to 21 and then a couple of weeks hire them back at the lower rate. Does the law specify how long a person can be considered a Trainee? Or is the state now empowering employers to create a whole new class of employees. And finally, If you cannot walk or ride a bike to your $5.44 hour job, $140 a barrel oil will be a problem.
Ah, Alan the troll makes his return. And talks about how the best way for business to operate is to break the law.
Shocking. But not.
appleblossom,
Do you have any friends who have ever run a business ?
My friends who own businesses like obeying the law. Unlike yours apparently.
Appleblossom,
Your business friends, do they like all of the government mandates, or are these non profit businesses ?
Alan,
Your example is flawed because of the benefits package. Most workers do not get benefits till they pass a probation period. Had they just said pay minimum wage and if you pass the 90 day probation period we will add on benefits.
As for your business did you ever think if you paid your workers a livable wage they wouldn’t leave to go someplace else. You are spending a lot of money just to hand them over to someone else and then train the next group. Interesting business model.
The law doesn’t appear to protect them from being fired and then being rehired at the lower wage. And not only will increased fuel prices be a problem, but so will higher prices of food, clothing, housing, medical care, etc.
Dana,
” As for your business did you ever think if you paid your workers a livable wage they wouldn’t leave to go someplace else. You are spending a lot of money just to hand them over to someone else and then train the next group. Interesting business model. ”
I agree with you. I was not talking about my business, I was talking about former employers. My point being that free enterprise works. You guys love to lump all businesses together. They are all run by different kinds of people.
If one guy or girl wants to run a training ground for other businesses, that is their business. A trained experienced worker has more options to go to a different company who values him more, than a guy who can’t get work experience.
My example showed how sometimes your good intentions actually do far more harm than good, especially to the poor in a depressed area like the Bronx.
Minimum wage laws protect higher paid workers from competition due to lower paid ones. If the poor never get on the ladder, the middle class above them can relax, goof off, and demand higher pay for less output.
Donna,
“
Donna,
” The law doesn’t appear to protect them from being fired and then being rehired at the lower wage. And not only will increased fuel prices be a problem, but so will higher prices of food, clothing, housing, medical care, etc. ”
The answer is to do everything you can to help the greedy capitalists. The more the better, because then they have to compete for the workers. This is what raises real wages and benefits. Basic economics 101 .
One of my friends owns a for profit small business (in terms of employees) and he not only has sales of 3.5 million, he still manages to give his employees full benefits as well as good salaries.
All without breaking the law. Unlike Alan’s friends.
Appleblossom,
I’m glad to hear you have one capitalist friend. If I may, what State does he do business in ?
It is irrelevant Alan. Have a nice day.
Appleblossom,
It is not irrelevant. Your friend, if he really exists, has a target on his back from Barak Obama. If he is in a State like California, then he also has a target from State taxocrats .
Minimum wage laws protect higher paid workers from competition due to lower paid ones. If the poor never get on the ladder, the middle class above them can relax, goof off, and demand higher pay for less output.
Gosh, just think how motivating it would be to all paid workers if they brought slavery back!
Donna,
” Gosh, just think how motivating it would be to all paid workers if they brought slavery back! ”
It must be hilarious to be you. You really do not have to think to ridicule my points, do you ? Just write some off the wall analogy.
Alan, try harder and I might have to take longer to ridicule your points.