Things that make this childless Diva a curmudgeon about it.
Posted by: Donna
Bryan Fischer of the American Family Association wrote a blog post where he called children born to unmarried mothers bastards. Yes, “bastards”. Fischer’s solution to poverty and wealth disparity is to let the poor eat marriage and let the children of sluts starve.
He points out that we are exacerbating the problem by subsidizing it. I’ve always argued that one of the fixed rules of human nature is that you get more of what you subsidize,and we are going broke subsidizing the births of bastard children. This year, taxpayers will cough up $300 billion to provide welfare to single moms, with the average single mother getting three dollars back in benefits for every dollar she pays in taxes.
I clicked on Fischer’s bio and learned quickly that he shares a characteristic with the vast majority of people I encounter who grouse about public assistance to poor families. And that is that he is, himself, a parent.
Recently, when a local conservative overcaffienated pundit (and parent) chided me and Warren Buffett for thinking that regressive taxes are unfair, he used this comparison to do so:
Take the guy who lives in poverty. He pays very little actual tax–primarily on tobacco and if he lives in Phoenix a new sales tax on food. He probably pays no income tax or property tax. Of course, what little tax he actually pays can look like a fairly high percentage, because he has almost no income.
But what does he get from the state? Well, if his kids are in school, the state pays about $8,000 per year per kid to educate them and his family has free health care that’s worth another $5,000 to $10,000 a year. So if he has 3 kids, he receives about $30,000 a year in direct services from the state.
And the guy in Paradise Valley? He gets the same basic services that the poor guys gets, but he surely has health insurance and his kids are likely grown, or they went to private school. So he pays income taxes and property taxes and gets almost nothing in services while the poor guy pays taxes on his cigarettes and gets $30K a year in direct benefits.
Let’s do another comparison here, shall we? Let’s compare the situation of your childless curmudgeon Diva to that of a dude with 3 kids. Let’s say he and I work the exact same white collar cubicle job with the same salary at some corporate behemoth. When you add up the multiple tax deductions and credits available to him as a parent, the public school system that is available to his children, and the numerous child-centric public accommodations funded by taxpayers it becomes clear that he gets a far better deal, tax-wise, than I do. Oh, and let’s look at health insurance. Family Dude covers his wife and the kids through his employer’s insurance plan. If his family plan costs the company $11K a year and the company pays $5K for your Diva’s plan (I’m high-balling it because I smoke), then Family Dude is getting thousands more in tax exempt compensation than I am because he performed the heroic feat of impregnating his wife.
Normally, I don’t complain about that stuff but if Family Dude is a typical Arizona conservative, then he is the type of guy who will pester me at my cubicle with Rush Limbaugh talking points all the live long day. (Can you tell I’ve worked with his sort in the past? More times than I care to count.) He will rail against the public assistance that poor families get until my ears bleed. No amount of pointing out to him that most of the people getting that assistance work at grueling low wage jobs with no benefits dissuades him from his heartfelt belief that every single dollar spent on Medicaid and food stamps is going to lazy bums. When I point out the numerous subsidies he gets as a middle class parent that I don’t get he will invariably get highly offended, which is hilarious to watch but illustrative of the extent of his cognitive dissonance. The children of the poor are leeches on society but his kids are “the future” dontchaknow.
Speaking of welfare canards and hypocrisy, AZBlueMeanie of Blog for Arizona has an excellent post up debunking the latest conservative propaganda drivel about how “most Americans don’t pay taxes”.
Anyhow, back to the paragon of Godly virtue known as Reverend Bryan Fischer, who calls children “bastards”. Like I said, Fischer is the proud father of two grown children.
Bryan has been married to his bride, Debbie, for 32 years, and they have lived in Idaho since 1980. They have two grown children, Jana and J.D. Jana is a graduate of Willamette University (in literature, music, and philosophy), while J.D. is a graduate of Whitman College where he majored in molecular biology and played baseball. Jana is currently pursuing a doctorate in literature and philosophy at Purdue University, and J.D. is working as research scientist at the University of Washington.
Purdue and U-Dub are public universities, Rev. Fischer, so take the beam out of your own eye before you say stuff like this:
if you conceive children out of wedlock, we will expect you and your families to find a way to take care of the expenses involved in raising that child. In America, that child is your responsibility and no one else’s. You may look for help to charities funded by private, voluntary, compassion-driven donations, but you may not look to government to force other Americans at gunpoint to take money out of their wallets and fork it over to you. We are no longer going to treat you as helpless little children; we are going to treat you as the responsible adults you can become. It’s time to grow up.
Oh really? They’ve taken money out of my wallet at gunpoint to help affluent people like you raise your kids my entire working life. My Irish fanny that “in America that child is your responsibility”. Ensuring that children are properly cared for IS a community responsibility, even for us childless curmudgeons. Hillary was right. And every pompous moralizing conservative windbag with kids who accepts a single dime of government subsidies for his kids is a giant hypocrite, which basically means all of them are.
The Right Reverend Fischer – “director of Issue Analysis for Government and Public Policy at American Family Association, where he provides expertise on a range of public policy topics” – is especially grotesque, with his call to let poor children starve and die because he’s creepy he disapproves of the sexual behavior of their mothers. There’s that “culture of life” for ya.
Why is it that so many of the people who claim to be promoting the best values “for the children” seem to hate them actively?
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My thoughts exactly. Thanks, Irish.
Donna,
Why are you forcing your heinous anti-children ideology on us on your blog? You just know that if we keep paying for things like roads and schools and policemen and public health facilities and wars and parks and corporate tax credits and the EPA and the tax credit I get for sending my children to Brophy, we’re just going to sink lower and lower into godless communism to the point where we won’t be able to help ourselves if an earthquake or a hurricane or a teabagging Taxachussetts furry strikes America.
My God, all of you socialist nazi muslins make me sick, I’m going Galt by taking my wealth to China, see how you like America with one less part time process server, consulting firm owner, licensed REALTOR, AmWay distributor, Medicare recipient and Republican primary voter, I’ll enjoy watching America suffer at the hands of Nobamer in the safety of my new free market paradise home.
I’ve been told many times by the left that I have no right to comment on the wars or anything military because I was never in the military . But apparently if you’ve never been a parent you are still allowed to have your say about children . I’m just glad we all play by the same rules .
Alan, you must not have read my post because your comment bears absolutely no relevance to it.
At any rate, your children are not your personal property. They are people and part of the community.
I’ve never heard anyone on the left say that people who weren’t in the military had no right to comment on the wars. But, I digress… blame Alan.
Wonder what Mr. Fischer’s opinion is on the sexual behaviors of the fathers of these children. Does he have a proposal for going after deadbeat dads to support their offspring?
katie,
” I’ve never heard anyone on the left say that people who weren’t in the military had no right to comment on the wars. But, I digress… blame Alan. ”
During the worst of the debate on the Iraq war, the left recruited any ex military people they could to bash the war . I argued with these people and they would ask me how I could be for sending American youth to be slaughtered in Iraq .
They being ex-military could bash President Bush and the military command but I had no right to be for the war . I merely propose that same standard here when it comes to children . Being the proud parent of two, I figure I have twice the right .
I even have triple the right because I and not the government, actually raised and supported my daughters .
Alan, was there a sale on straw at the farmers market today? Because your argument is so full of it that it should be declared a fire hazard. Last time I checked, I wasn’t opposing parenthood (for others, anyway).
As I explained in my post, unless you refused any and all government subsidies for your daughters – dependent tax deductions, tax credits, public schools, public accommodations, tax exempt employer based health insurance, etc. – then you did not fully support your daughters. You got subsidized by the taxpayers, including childless ones.
I specifically recall Spendy McMarxistgay, the President of the Left, telling Alan Scott in a nationally televised address that because Alan wasn’t a veteran he couldn’t have an opinion about the Iraq War back when it was still unpopular to think the war was unwise.
Alan Scott, however, didn’t get the message, because the hut he constructed in China with no interference from the government is not hooked up to a socialist utility company and his hut is not served by the ACORN communist thugs masquerading as postal workers.
dude, you win teh internets for “Spendy McMarxistgay”
I have quintuple the right to criticize the government, because I have such keen free market business sense that I outsourced the raising of five offspring to five separate women, after also selling them things they couldn’t financed with adjustable rate mortgages.
If I was in charge of everything, I’d use the shrewd busines skills I’ve acquired through years of lying and philandering and no one would have to pay for children anymore.
Donna,
” As I explained in my post, unless you refused any and all government subsidies for your daughters – dependent tax deductions, tax credits, public schools, public accommodations, tax exempt employer based health insurance, etc. – then you did not fully support your daughters. You got subsidized by the taxpayers, including childless ones. ”
And I do thank you for your subsidy . I am sure that some of my tax dollars must have gone to you in some way . If there is one thing I have learned from you big government types is the art of rationalization . As Ben Franklin said, it is convenient to be reasonable, for it allows one to give a reason for everything one wants to do .
My rationalization is that if you big government spenders are going to spend the money you pick pocketed
from me in taxes, then I am not too proud to grab a fraction of it back when you give me the opportunity .
My point is that if I can financially raise my kids, why should I pay for some one else’s one night stand .
I do not begrudge one mistake, but even you must be miffed at your tax dollars going to a baby factory raising 5 products from 5 different sperm donors .
dude,
” Alan Scott, however, didn’t get the message, because the hut he constructed in China with no interference from the government is not hooked up to a socialist utility company and his hut is not served by the ACORN communist thugs masquerading as postal workers. ”
My God, you almost display real wit . You ‘ve come far Pilgrim . Does it feel like far ? Was it worth the trouble ?
I do not begrudge one mistake, but even you must be miffed at your tax dollars going to a baby factory raising 5 products from 5 different sperm donors .
I don’t begrudge any of the children getting the support they need so that they don’t starve and die. You know, Alan, it’s become a cliche with us lefties that you guys only care about life from conception to birth, but you keep giving us reasons to say it.
Alan Scott,
I’m going to lay it all down on the line here.
I don’t hate you.
I pity you.
Anyone who can think, “People who help poor people are actually out to enslave me, and those poor people would have a chance if only someone would forget about them and not help them,” must lack something inside of them, something that makes other people appreciate when their bellies are full and their futures are secure.
I don’t know what that is, brother, but I love you. Just like I love every person. Just like I love America, for everything it’s given me and my family. Since I was a kid I’ve watched my family prosper, going from dirt poor and one minor accident away from living in a car, to bright, fulfilled, and optimistic. We could do that because we took advantage of opportunities that were offered to us– the public investments that someone else paid for, that we got to use, and now we pay for, so some other poor family could live the American dream the way we do.
So, next time you decide to rant and rave about how people who think like me want to destroy everything we have, just remember that I’m here for you. We’re never going to meet, but I’ll give you a slap on the back, buy you a beer, and give you a word of encouragement if you ever need it, because you deserve it.
Sincerely,
dude
Alan, not everyone believes in punishing the child for the sins of the father or mother.
Appleblossom,
” Alan, not everyone believes in punishing the child for the sins of the father or mother. ”
Thank you for making me feel Reaganesq. Your side made him out to be Simon Legree ( Yes I read the Book, did you? ).
Dude ,
” We’re never going to meet, but I’ll give you a slap on the back, buy you a beer, and give you a word of encouragement if you ever need it, because you deserve it. ”
:) That is very kind of you . But I do not think you realize how vicious y’all on this board appear to me . The people and values that I look up to, are savaged here . They are mischaracterized . I merely push back .
Donna,
” You know, Alan, it’s become a cliche with us lefties that you guys only care about life from conception to birth, but you keep giving us reasons to say it. ”
If that had any truth, I would have let the state raise my kids . I also believe your good intentions are destructive . The welfare policies of President Johnson’s Great Society helped destroy the inner city Family culture . Women got more State money if the fathers of their children did not support the family . The whole welfare system was set up to keep the inner city poor in housing projects and keep them from rising out of poverty .
Democrats, such as Barak Obama, need the poor as a political power base . I mean what would happen if the poor did not need Government handouts ? Democrats would have to import poor people to stay in office . Wait, that’s what they are doing with illegal immigration .
Alan, your side insisted on not having the father in the home.
Not ours. We believe in helping those who are not well off to better themselves. That is one of the reasons we had things like the Great Society programs-that worked by the way. Not as well as we could want, but they did work.
Your side lives in terror at the thought that someone, somewhere is getting a helping hand that you personally did not extend. Because that person somewhere may not be “worthy” of that assistance. And only your side gets to decide who is worthy, not anyone else.
So you visit your righteous wrath on innocent children…imposing restrictions on the help intended to prevent exactly the situation they grew up in.
Appleblossom,
” Alan, your side insisted on not having the father in the home.
Not ours. We believe in helping those who are not well off to better themselves. That is one of the reasons we had things like the Great Society programs-that worked by the way. Not as well as we could want, but they did work. ”
I do not believe that . Your Great Freakin Society has resulted in sometimes 3 generations on Welfare, living in Housing Projects .
And I do know what I’m talking about . I lived a portion of my childhood in a Project in East Falls, Philadelphia . I grew up with roaches as house mates . Fortunately we did not stay there .
” Your side lives in terror at the thought that someone, somewhere is getting a helping hand that you personally did not extend. Because that person somewhere may not be “worthy” of that assistance. And only your side gets to decide who is worthy, not anyone else. ”
Your Social Opium does not work . You keep the poor addicted to their assistance check . They never get off the dole . Which is your plan . They have to keep voting your way .
“But I do not think you realize how vicious y’all on this board appear to me . The people and values that I look up to, are savaged here . They are mischaracterized . I merely push back . ”
“Your Social Opium does not work . You keep the poor addicted to their assistance check . They never get off the dole . Which is your plan . They have to keep voting your way .”
How do you expect people to react when you believe this?
The Great Society and New Deal created a generation of people like you Alan.
You just do not acknowledge the effort your forefathers put into making the conditions that let you be the way you are.
dude,
” check . They never get off the dole . Which is your plan . They have to keep voting your way .”
” How do you expect people to react when you believe this? ”
Believe it or not ” dude ” I continually question my own beliefs against what you and the others post . So far you have convinced me of nothing, and strengthened my convictions .
I ” expect ” people who read what I write to weigh what I believe against what you believe . I may peel off one or two who see more truth in me than you . I seriously doubt that you have the moral fire power to flip anyone from my side .
Appleblossom,
” The Great Society and New Deal created a generation of people like you Alan. ”
Since you disapprove of me, then I suppose they were a great failure . At any rate I am a creation of neither Socialist Program . My Father got us out of the project by working 2 and 3 jobs . My Mother did her part by squeezing pennies until Lincoln screamed .
” You just do not acknowledge the effort your forefathers put into making the conditions that let you be the way you are. ”
You could not be more wrong . My forefathers were my real forefathers . My forefathers were not FDR and LBJ .
Since you disapprove of me, then I suppose they were a great failure . At any rate I am a creation of neither Socialist Program . My Father got us out of the project by working 2 and 3 jobs . My Mother did her part by squeezing pennies until Lincoln screamed .
And you aren’t penniless today because America subsidized your family via tax deductions, tax credits, employer-based tax exempt health insurance, public schools, public universities, etc.
Donna,
” And you aren’t penniless today because America subsidized your family via tax deductions, tax credits, employer-based tax exempt health insurance, public schools, public universities, etc. ”
You can look at it that way . I look at it another way . Look at the amount of private wealth and public wealth destroyed by these inefficient systems . Look at the shy rocketing insurance premiums caused by the
“cost shifting ” the public health systems . Here is a “new” thought Donna,. When you don’t pay for your own medical costs, you have no incentive to hold them down .
Public Schools have been taken over by the teacher’s unions and cost far more than they should . How about Universities . These sacred pieces of crap care more about Professors getting public grant money than Professors who actually teach .
The Professors and Grad students live off the undergrads. Stop me if you find anything inaccurate .
Your whole public sector is corrupted .
Why bother Alan? Your mind is made up and no amount of actual data would convince you otherwise.
So why you come here is a mystery. Plus, you can claim anything you want on the internets about yourself. It is unverifiable.
appleblossom,
” So why you come here is a mystery. ”
I am called upon by a higher power to challenge misinformation where I find it . Of course, I can find it almost anywhere in the Lapdog Media .
” Your mind is made up and no
amount of actual data would
convince you otherwise. ”
You confuse data with opinion .
” Plus, you can claim anything you want on the internets about yourself. It is unverifiable ”
I agree . The only answer I have to that is, I care about the truth more than I care about winning an argument with y’all.
Alan-your opinion will not change no matter what we show or tell you. Even when it is fact you still argue against it. So there is no point in discussing anything with you. There is no willingness to learn.
Yeah, I’m done.
Appleblossom, do you even think he imagines people replying to him, or literally robots programmed by ACORN?
Appleblossom,
” So there is no point in discussing anything with you. There is no willingness to learn. ”
I love the way you Progressives think . If I am not convinced, it is only because of my un “willingness to learn “.
At least I respond in detail to your points of argument . I do not always get that from Progressives .